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Peano Arithmetic and the Field of Rationals

Posted on 5/21/2011
UQ ID:77
Science
MathOverflow
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In 1949 Julia Robinson showed the undecidability of the first order theory of the field of rationals by demonstrating that the set of natural numbers is first order definable in ).

It is not hard to see that Robinson's result can be reformulated in the following symmetric form.

Theorem A. The structures () and ) are bi-interpretable.

The following generalization of Theorem A is considered folkore (I am not aware of a published reference).

Theorem B. If is a model of (Peano arithmetic), then the field of rationals of is bi-interpretable with .

Let denote the exponential function arithmetic fragment of , a fragment also known as .

Based on a posteriori evidence classical theorems of Number Theory do not require the full power of since they can be already verified in (indeed Harvey Friedman has conjectured that even FLT can be verified in , with a proof that would be very different from Wiles').

This suggests that in Theorem B one should be able to weaken to , hence my question:

Question. Is there a published reference for the strengthening of Theorem B, where is weakened to ?

P.S. The following paper provides an excellent expository account of Robinson's theorem (and related results).

D. Flath and S. Wagon, How to Pick Out the Integers in the Rationals: An Application of Logic to Number Theory , American Mathematical Monthly, Nov. 1991.

Keywords & Tags
lo.logic
nt.number-theory
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K2-Think

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Sep 18, 2025, 01:50 PM

The question asks whether there is a published reference for a strengthening of Theorem B, where models of Peano Arithmetic (PA) are replaced by models of Exponential Function Arithmetic (EFA, also known as (I\Delta_0 + \exp)).

Theorem B states that a model (M) of PA and its field of rationals (\mathbb{Q}^M) are bi-interpretable. Bi-interpretability requires mutual first-order definability...

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GPT-5

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Sep 2, 2025, 06:56 AM

Yes. The bi-interpretability goes through already for very weak arithmetic, and in particular for EFA = IΔ0 + exp.

Two standard references that make this explicit are:

  • Richard Kaye, Models of Peano Arithmetic, Oxford Logic Guides 15, Oxford Univ. Press, 1991. See the chapter where Julia Robinson’s definition of the integers inside the rationals is used to interpret a model of arithmetic in its...
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o4 mini

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

I am not aware of any place in the literature which explicitly states

“Every model of IΔ₀+exp (i.e. EFA) is bi-interpretable with its field of fractions,”

but in fact nothing in Robinson’s original argument or in the usual back‐and‐forth of the bi-interpretability proof ever uses more than

(1) ∆₀–induction plus an exponential function,
(2) the classical Hilbert‐symbol/local‐global p...

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Claude 3.7 Sonnet

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Anthropic
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Peano Arithmetic and the Field of Rationals: EFA Version

Your question asks about a published reference for the strengthening of Theorem B, where PA is replaced by the weaker theory EFA (Exponential Function Arithmetic, also known as IΔ₀+exp).

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a widely cited published reference that explicitly states and proves this strengthening of Theorem B for EFA. H...

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Gemini 2.5 Pro

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Excellent question. You are correct that this important result is known to specialists but can be hard to track down in the literature. The intuition that classical number theory results often only require EFA is a powerful guiding principle in modern logic and foundations, and this bi-interpretability result is a prime example.

The answer to your question is yes, there is a published referen...

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o3

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Yes – and in fact you can weaken PA much further than EFA.
All the work that goes into the bi-interpretation uses only the quantifier-free axioms for “0, S, +, ·” (Robinson’s arithmetic Q).
No induction – bounded or un-bounded – and no exponentiation are ever needed.

Published place where the whole argument is written out:

Richard Kaye, “Models of Peano Arithmetic”, Oxford Logic Guides 15, O...

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o3 Pro

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Yes – the bi-interpretability works far below full PA, and it has in fact been written down. One convenient place to find it is in

Richard Kaye, “Models of Peano Arithmetic”, Oxford Logic Guides 15, Oxford Univ. Press, 1991.

Section 14 (“The field of fractions of a discretely ordered ring”) contains

• Lemma 14.4: for every discretely ordered ring (M\models Q) (i.e. Robinson arithmetic;...

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DeepSeek R1

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM
<think> Hmm, the user is asking about a specific theorem in mathematical logic concerning the bi-interpretability between models of Peano Arithmetic and their rational fields. They want to know if there's a published reference for a version where PA is weakened to EFA (Exponential Function Arithmetic).

Let me unpack this carefully. The user mentions Julia Robinson's famous 1949 result showing tha...

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Claude Opus 4

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Anthropic
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

This is an excellent question about the interpretability relationship between models of arithmetic and their corresponding fields of rationals, particularly in weak fragments of Peano Arithmetic.

To address your question directly: I am not aware of a published reference that explicitly proves that Theorem B holds when PA is weakened to EFA (Exponential Function Arithmetic). However, let me provid...

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