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Can Erdős-Turán theorem be generalised that way?

Posted on 1/11/2019
UQ ID:263
Science
Mathematics
Original

Suppose for an arbitrary group word ower the alphabet of symbols is a variety of all groups , that satisfy an identity . Is it true, that for any group word there exists a positive real number , such that any finite group is in iff

How did this question arise? There is a widely known theorem proved by P. Erdős and P. Turán that states:

A finite group is abelian iff

This theorem can be rephrased using aforementioned terminology as . There also is a generalisation of this theorem, stating that a finite group is nilpotent of class iff thus making . However, I have never seen similar statements about other one-word varieties being proved or disproved, despite such question seeming quite natural . . . Actually, I doubt that the conjecture in the main part of question is true. However, I failed to find any counterexamples myself.

Keywords & Tags
combinatorics
group-theory
finite-groups
conjectures
universal-algebra
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K2-Think

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Qwen2.5-32B
Sep 18, 2025, 01:50 PM

The conjecture is not true for arbitrary group words ( w ). A counterexample can be constructed using a specific group word and analyzing the density of tuples satisfying the identity.

Consider the group word ( w(a,b,c) = [a,b]c ), where ( [a,b] = aba^{-1}b^{-1} ). The variety ( \mathfrak{U}_w ) consists of all groups ( G ) where ( [a,b]c = e ) for all ( a,b,c \in G ). This implies...

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GPT-5

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OpenAI
Sep 2, 2025, 06:56 AM

Rephrase. For a fixed group word w in n variables and a finite group G, write p_w(G) = |{(a1,…,an) in G^n : w(a1,…,an)=1}| / |G|^n. Your question asks whether for every word w there is a constant ε(w)>0 such that, for all finite groups G, p_w(G) > 1 − ε(w) implies that G satisfies the identity w≡1 (i.e. G lies in the variety U_w defined by w).

What is known.

  • Commutator word. For w=[x,y] (abeli...
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Claude Opus 4

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Anthropic
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

This is a fascinating question about generalizing the Erdős-Turán theorem to arbitrary group words. Let me analyze this carefully.

The conjecture asks whether for every group word , there exists a positive constant such that a finite group satisfies the identity if and only if the proportion of tuples satisfying exceeds $1 - \epsilon...

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Claude 3.7 Sonnet

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Anthropic
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Generalization of Erdős-Turán's 5/8 Theorem

This is an interesting question about generalizing the Erdős-Turán theorem to arbitrary group words. Let me analyze it carefully.

Understanding the Question

The question asks whether for any group word over variables, there exists a positive constant such that a finite group belongs to the variety (where...

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o3 Pro

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OpenAI
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

The problem you raised is exactly the problem of deciding whether a given word w is a probabilistic identity.
For a word w in the free group F = 〈x1 , … , xn 〉 write

P G (w) = |{(a1 , … , an ) ∈ G n : w(a1 , … , an ) = 1}| ⁄ |G| n

(the probability that a random n–tuple in the finite group G satisfies w = 1). The question is:

(∗) Does every non-trivial word w admit ε(w) > 0 such that
...

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o4 mini

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OpenAI
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

First, let us restate the question in the language of “probabilistic identities.” Fix a word
  w=w(x₁,…,xₙ)∈Fₙ,
and let 𝒰_w be the variety of (all) groups satisfying the identity w=1 . For a finite group G we set

  p_G(w) = |{(g₁,…,gₙ)∈Gⁿ : w(g₁,…,gₙ)=1}| ÷ |G|ⁿ.

The conjecture is that for every word w there is an ε(w)>0 so that

  G∈𝒰_w ⟺ p_G(w)>1−ε(w).

Equivalently o...

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DeepSeek R1

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DeepSeek
deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM
<think> I need to understand this question. It's about generalizing the Erdős-Turán theorem, which says that for the commutator word [a,b], if the probability that a random pair commutes is greater than 5/8, then the group is abelian. Similarly, for higher commutators, there's a threshold for nilpotency.

The question is whether for any group word w, there's some epsilon(w) > 0 such that for any f...

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o3

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OpenAI
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

The problem you ask for is usually formulated as follows.

For a word w in n free generators put

  p w (G)= |{(g1 ,…,gn )∈G n :w(g1 ,…,gn )=1}| /|G| n .

Question (P. M. Neumann, Kourovka Notebook, Problem 11.36).
Does every non–trivial word w admit a constant ε(w)>0 such that, for every finite group G,

  p w (G)>1−ε(w) ⇒ w is an identity of G ?

Equivalently, is

  sup {p w (G) : G f...

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Gemini 2.5 Pro

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Google
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

This is an excellent and very natural question that gets to the heart of a field known as probabilistic group theory. The short answer to your question is no, the conjecture is not true for an arbitrary group word .

The property you are asking about has a name. A variety of groups (defined by a set of laws, or in your case, a single law ) is called **probabilistical...

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