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Souslin trees and weakly compact cardinals

Posted on 3/30/2014
UQ ID:241
Science
MathOverflow
Original

In Souslin trees on the first inaccessible cardinal it is asked if it is consistent that there are no Souslin trees at the least inaccessible cardinal .

In this question I would like to ask an apparently simpler question:

Question. Is it consistent that there are no Souslin trees for some inaccessible not weakly compact cardinal ?

Remarks. (A) If is weakly compact, then the tree property holds at , in particular there are no Souslin trees,

(B) If then is weakly compact iff there are no Souslin trees.

(C) does not imply the existence of a Souslin tree, for inaccessible. For example if is ineffable and holds, then holds and there are no Souslin trees.

Keywords & Tags
lo.logic
set-theory
forcing
large-cardinals
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K2-Think

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Qwen2.5-32B
Sep 18, 2025, 01:50 PM

The question asks whether it is consistent that there exists an inaccessible cardinal κ which is not weakly compact, yet has no κ-Souslin trees.

Key Observations:

  1. Tree Property and Weak Compactness: A weakly compact cardinal κ has the tree property (i.e., no κ-Souslin trees exist), but the converse is not necessarily true. The tree property is a combinatorial condition weaker than wea...
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GPT-5

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OpenAI
Sep 2, 2025, 06:56 AM

Yes. In fact there are well–known sufficient reflection principles at κ which rule out κ–Souslin trees, and these can be made to hold at some inaccessible κ while the tree property still fails there (so κ is not weakly compact).

Two ingredients:

  • From a κ–Souslin tree to a nonreflecting stationary set. For a regular uncountable κ, a κ–Souslin tree T yields a nonreflecting stationary subset of E...
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o4 mini

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Yes – in fact nothing “mystical’’ prevents an inaccessible κ from carrying Aronszajn‐trees (so κ fails the tree–property) while at the same time failing every one of Jensen’s square–principles so that Jensen’s usual construction of a κ–Souslin tree cannot be carried out. Equivalently one can arrange:

  1. κ is inaccessible,
  2. there is a κ‐Aronszajn tree (so κ is not weakly compact),
  3. ...
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o3 Pro

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OpenAI
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Yes.
Starting from a weakly compact cardinal one can force a model in which

 • κ is still inaccessible,
 • κ is no longer weakly compact, but
 • the tree property holds at κ, i.e. there are no κ-Souslin (κ-Aronszajn) trees.

Thus the consistency strength needed is no more than that of a weakly compact cardinal.


  1. The idea...
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DeepSeek R1

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DeepSeek
deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM
<think> Okay, I need to tackle this question about Souslin trees and weakly compact cardinals. The user is asking if it's consistent that there's an inaccessible cardinal κ that isn't weakly compact but still has no κ-Souslin trees. Let me break this down.

First, recalling some basics: A κ-Souslin tree is a tree of height κ with no branches or antichains of size κ. The tree property at κ means ev...

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o3

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Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Yes.

Start with a model V of ZFC in which κ is weakly compact.
Force with the standard club-shooting poset

  P = { c ⊂ κ : c is closed, bounded, ⟨c, <⟩ is increasing
           and every γ∈c has cofinality ω } ,

ordered by end–extension.
Facts about P:

• Size and closure |P| = κ and P is <κ-closed (indeed κ-closed).
• Cardinal preservation Because of κ-closure, no cardinals <κ are coll...

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Gemini 2.5 Pro

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Google
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

This is an excellent question that gets to the heart of the relationship between different large cardinal properties. The answer is yes, it is consistent.

Short Answer:

Yes, assuming the consistency of a strongly compact cardinal, it is consistent that there exists an inaccessible cardinal that is not weakly compact but has the tree property (and thus no -Souslin trees).

Th...

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Claude 3.7 Sonnet

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Anthropic
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

Souslin Trees and Weakly Compact Cardinals

This question explores the relationship between inaccessible cardinals, weakly compact cardinals, and the existence of κ-Souslin trees.

Understanding the Question

The question asks whether it's consistent with ZFC that there exists an inaccessible cardinal κ such that:

  1. κ is not weakly compact
  2. There are no κ-Souslin trees

To properly underst...

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Claude Opus 4

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Anthropic
Aug 1, 2025, 12:00 AM

This is an excellent question about the relationship between Souslin trees and large cardinal properties. Let me provide a comprehensive answer.

Answer: Yes, it is consistent.

The consistency of having an inaccessible cardinal that is not weakly compact but has no -Souslin trees has been established through several different approaches:

1. Lévy Collapse Method (Kunen)

O...

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